Potential Options

"Long_Voyager94" (yourenotavalidusername) 01/15/2020 at 10:22 • Filed to: unnecessary car shopping with Long-Voyager

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2009 VW Routan SEL. Some false advertising but looks pretty nice all around.

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Super nice ( other than the kink in the pillar? ), low mileage, 4.0L!

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Pretty decent Town and Country.

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Few external blemishes, but low mileage on the Penta and clean inside.

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Would have to see more pics, but if it’s just the hatch it’s NBD

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Here’s a contender

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Could have twins

https://grandrapids.craigslist.org/cto/d/jenison-2012-dodge-grand-caravan-sxt/7047945115.html

A 2013 that looks pretty nice

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Guess I need to get off my butt and get mine listed, there’s plenty of options out there right now.

WELP, been out since I posted this, Influenza A followed by a severe sinus infection and pneumonia. Finally back into the world today, still not 100% but getting better.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Long_Voyager94 01/07/2020 at 16:30

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Legit:

i HAVE NICE DODGE GRAND CARAVAN. EXCELLENT CONDITION INTERIOR VERY POWER WINDOWS POWER DOORS. BRAND NEW TIRES NO MECHANICAL PROBLEMS EVERYTHING WORKS MORE INFORMATION CALL  

3point8isgreat > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 01/07/2020 at 16:38

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I can’t help but read it as the interior being very power windows and doors.  I’ve never described something as being very power windows.  But maybe I should start.

JustAnotherG6 > Long_Voyager94 01/07/2020 at 17:00

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Only differences between the Dodges and the VW are: The VW mid seats don’t fold down into the stow and go a nd the stock wheels are 17" instead of 16" but use th e same tire profile (60 series) . That alone has netted us a good 2-3 MPG over the years compared to our friends Caravan.

VincentMalamute-Kim > Long_Voyager94 01/07/2020 at 17:01

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I like the front/rear end styling of the Routan better than the Caravan’s.  Especially the rear.  And that first one is AWD.

“Kink in the pillar” I assume you mean the first photo? If so, optical illusion I’m sure.

Where did the 4.0 V6 come from? No 3.3, 3.8, or 3.6?

fhrblig > Long_Voyager94 01/07/2020 at 18:21

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Some of the Routans were made with the P entastar V6, and I think that’s what I’d look for if I needed a minivan. I don’t know if that pushes them out of your range, though. Th ere’s really no reason not to get a Pentastar Grand Caravan instead if it ends up being cheaper than a  Pentastar Routan.

Long_Voyager94 > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 01/15/2020 at 10:10

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Seems most ads like that around here are of Hispanic origin. 9/10 they’re pretty decent people once you actually talk with them.  

Long_Voyager94 > fhrblig 01/15/2020 at 10:12

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I hate the Penta’s lack of low end.

Personally, a 4.0L is top of the list as it’s quicker than the Penta thanks to it’s huge torque band, and they generally get better economy real world.

After that the 3.8 or Penta would be a toss up.

3.3 is really the only engine I don’t want.

Long_Voyager94 > VincentMalamute-Kim 01/15/2020 at 10:16

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The 4.0L was only used for a couple years, it was a modded 3.5L IIRC. IMO it’s by far the best choice for a minivan motor as it has a huge torque band ( like 1500-4800 rpms IIRC ), it’s quicker than the Pentastar and nets better economy.

After the 4.0L, 3.8 or Penta would be a toss up.

Talking about that kink!

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > Long_Voyager94 01/15/2020 at 10:27

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You buying a VW Routan is about as dis honest as me buying a Pontiac Vibe.

jimz > Long_Voyager94 01/15/2020 at 10:33

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any of those produced during Daimler’s ownership is risky, IMO.  They cut back on the corrosion protection across the board (thus why so many Daimler-era C/J/D vehicles are rotting away) and the minivans had horrible, cheap brakes that don’t last worth a s**t.  

jimz > Long_Voyager94 01/15/2020 at 10:34

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it’s already starting to rust, apparently. Not good.

facw > Long_Voyager94 01/15/2020 at 10:37

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That’s a pretty weird place to get a dent, but I agree that it definitely looks real.

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > Long_Voyager94 01/15/2020 at 10:39

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Interesting, I wonder if there’s a reason or if it’s just coincidence. For example down in Mexico I always saw phone numbers and price and $$$ painted on the windows of cars for sale (not that Mexico is the be all and end all of the  Hispanic world). 

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > Long_Voyager94 01/15/2020 at 10:42

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I hope you’re feeling better now, the Flu is no joke. Not something you can just tough your way through 

IMO the Routan is intriguing but I would be concerned about the VW parts, assuming there are some in the interior/amenities. Otherwise Routan seems like the coolest option but the AWD might be an unnecessary pain, especially when you prefer 2WD.

Of course the obvious answer is the mechanically best one you can afford with the 4.0, amenities/cosmetics you can swap later I assume. Dent and scratch specials seem perfect for you and good for bartering (if you like that kind of thing) so I would use that to ad value.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Long_Voyager94 01/15/2020 at 10:45

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Chariotoflove > Long_Voyager94 01/15/2020 at 11:20

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I’m glad you’re over the flu. Rest up. 

HammerheadFistpunch > Long_Voyager94 01/15/2020 at 12:10

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I wouldn’t

https://oppositelock.kinja.com/this-really-happened-a-2009-vw-routan-review-1822005083

Long_Voyager94 > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) 01/15/2020 at 12:12

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No idea?

Long_Voyager94 > jimz 01/15/2020 at 12:15

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Given most minivan owners, I’d bet it happened early in life and they couldn’t afford the deductible, so they just left it.

That and it doesn’t take much for things to rust up here once the paint is chipped off.

Long_Voyager94 > JustAnotherG6 01/15/2020 at 12:16

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I find the non SNG seats more comfortable, so that’s actually a bonus for us.

As far as wheels go, idk how much it’ll matter when there’s ATs wrapped around them.

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > Long_Voyager94 01/15/2020 at 12:17

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Then we have a lot of work ahead of us 

Long_Voyager94 > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) 01/15/2020 at 12:22

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I tried, I managed going to work on Tuesday for a full shift, then I felt terrible when I found out what I had Tuesday night at Urgent Care.

I’m not entirely sure how much other than the front and rear changed between them honestly. The one listed as AWD is mis-listed, they never made this Platform in AWD.

Realistically, I look as these vans like this: If the owner couldn’t be bothered to do the basic repairs ( such as “needs brakes” ), chances are they couldn’t be bothered to maintain it properly either, so I don’t want it. If it’s been kept clean inside and out with good records, then I’ll be more interested.

Long_Voyager94 > jimz 01/15/2020 at 12:24

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There’s plenty of RT/GTs out there to rob the better brakes off of........

Honestly, the 2008-2011 vans seem to be more reliable than the 18+vans currently.

Long_Voyager94 > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 01/15/2020 at 12:25

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Hey, I can get one with almost 100k less miles for the same money, why not?

Long_Voyager94 > HammerheadFistpunch 01/15/2020 at 12:37

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I read through your review and while you have some goo d points, a lot of the “driving issues” you called out speak to me of a van that’s being driven on bad suspension/mounts instead of being repaired as it should be. 

I have to ask, has your FIL ever changed the trans fluid/filter in his van? Does he “baby” it in normal use?

jimz > Long_Voyager94 01/15/2020 at 12:38

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point taken. my dad has a ‘17 GC GT and the brakes are decent.  and I don’t find the Pentastar to be all that “gutless.”  

HammerheadFistpunch > Long_Voyager94 01/15/2020 at 12:42

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He’s had the suspension inspected 3 times.  He babies his van and follows the manufactures schedule to the letter.

Long_Voyager94 > jimz 01/15/2020 at 13:00

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Compared to the 4.0L it replaced, it’s a dog. It lacks any semblance of performance until 4k rpms.

The close ratios on the trans manage to make it feel “snappy”, but it really shows on odd speed step downs and anytime the revs drop under 4k.

Long_Voyager94 > HammerheadFistpunch 01/15/2020 at 13:05

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Inspected =/= Good suspension though. I mean sure, it may technically still do what it should, but that doesn’t mean it’s still good.

The babying is why the trans felt so horrible. These vans get very clunky/sloppy feeling when driven too nicely for too long. Strangely, they seem to enjoy being driven slightly on the “hard” side of things. Thankfully, they relearn quickly.

Our 2018 was very clunky feeling and acted confused when we first got it. I took it out and ran it hard for a tank of gas and now it’s smooth as silk and hits the right gear every time.

HammerheadFistpunch > Long_Voyager94 01/15/2020 at 13:12

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I’m confident that the suspension is just like this because its always been like this and hasn’t gotten worse. I’ve also looked it over myself.

I don’t buy the babying makes it worse thing. If thats truly the case then the transmission design is still faulty. I do get the van from time to time and I don’t baby it. Again, its always been like this except in the first year maybe.

These vans are your thing though and you know them inside and out, but my experience with this van has not been something that would cause me to recommend them.

winterlegacy, here 'till the end > Long_Voyager94 01/15/2020 at 13:45

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i HAVE FORGOTTEN HOW TO TURN OFF CAPS LOCK

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > Long_Voyager94 01/15/2020 at 14:42

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I’m glad you got checked out eventually.

I agree regarding the brakes type thing, I more meant cosmetics like the tailgate or the bent C pillar (I want to know how). Those are things I could see even a good owner ignoring because they don’t have the skill to fix it them self and not botch it, but they know it won’t be worth the price to have it done right (or at least that is their impression) 

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > Long_Voyager94 01/15/2020 at 15:21

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I just changed my name like, two days ago. I’m gonna make fun of you if you buy a Routan.

Long_Voyager94 > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) 01/15/2020 at 15:58

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Cosmetics come down to what it is. That C-pillar was likely something unseen in the mirrors that got backed into, I’d give it a pass.

The ones running around with 1/2 their bumpers missing or completely disgusting interiors, no thanks.

Long_Voyager94 > HammerheadFistpunch 01/15/2020 at 16:02

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The trans design is actually very good, it’s the general tuning that’s an issue, that’s why so many of them drive like this.

I really do appreciate your input on them, I never write off first hand experience!

Long_Voyager94 > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker 01/15/2020 at 16:03

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Funny enough I make fun of Routan owners.

Mostly because I know they have NO IDEA they bought a Grand Caravan!

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > Long_Voyager94 01/15/2020 at 16:13

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I never even thought of that....oh god the chidrens. My first car I did a full detail after I got it....felt something in the bottom of the map pocket back of the driver’s seat. Stuck my hand in and came back with a handful of mashed wafer cookies. 

Long_Voyager94 > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) 01/15/2020 at 16:33

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Yet another reason I’m happy we keep food out of the vehicles (mostly at least).

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > Long_Voyager94 01/15/2020 at 17:01

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*overpaid for a GC

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > Long_Voyager94 01/15/2020 at 17:07

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Amen on that. Who’s idea was carpeting in cars, I want to hose it off

someassemblyrequired > Long_Voyager94 01/15/2020 at 21:15

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Fun fact: the fronts for vans with the heavy duty brake package  are interchangeable with the Ram 1500.

fhrblig > Long_Voyager94 01/15/2020 at 21:43

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Yeah, hauling around 3k lbs of cargo from a stop ain’t much fun, especially going over the mountains.  But at highway speeds with the same load on board I don’t have much trouble passing when I need to.